Wish they kept brown.
I think with the addition of Mitchell Robinson they would have had a chance to win the championship if they kept brown.
We’re still doing this?
Yeah, people that are Celtics fans actually like JB and JT together. Shocking I know. Even more shocking that people aren’t happy to root for the corpse of PG13? Shocking stuff I know.
JB is a Sixer and has been for a couple months. Time to move on.
I get feeling that way, but I don’t think so. Tatum and Brown spent 8 years together and the 1 year they got it done they had a really great supporting cast. Holiday, Porzingis, White and Horford was an embarrassment of riches.
The current team with Brown instead of PaulGeorge feels closer to 2023. Outside of Tatum and Brown, 2023 Smart/Horford/Timelord/Brogdon/White feels closer to 2026 White/Queta/Robinson/Pritchard/Hauser. And then there’s the push-pull of Brown and Tatum potentially both not wanting to defer as the 2nd option. And we were good in 2023, we just were flawed and needed more.
The team going from finals win to 2nd round exit to 1st round exit just felt like it reached its conclusion.
I understand the emotional aspect of wanting another year of Tatum and Brown, but I think we were fortunate to get 1 with them in a year the league was not on our level, and it just wasn’t realistic to expect another with teams like Thunder, Spurs and Knicks who have clearly joined that conversation of head and shoulders above the competition.
The point of moving on from Brown is to search for someone better than him, since Tatum and Brown surrounded by role players was not enough, and this has 4-8 years of data to suggest that. Considering Brown’s value and how we struggled to find some great return, he was just never going to find us the answer, and it was time to move on.
Paul George is a worse player, but gives us a better opportunity to construct a contender for the remainder of Tatum’s prime if we find the right trade, something I don’t think we would have been able to do with Brown in his place, because of the money he would have tied up for the next 3-5 years (with extension) and his ability to not carry like the players that make that kind of money.
Brown was very good last year, but we did not win 56 games because he was carrying. We were winning games partly because Brown was carrying a huge scoring load, but also because Pritchard was one of the most efficient players in the midrange last season, the incredible defensive impact of the young wings, Luka Garza’s rebounding and second chance opportunities, and our bench out-hustling teams. But when those role players disappear in the playoffs, the stars have to step up and carry, which Brown did not do, and historically, really has not done. He’s performed well and consistently, but very rarely does he just completely take over in the playoffs. You can’t pay Jaylen Brown $60-70 million until he’s 35 to just be “solid.” He needs to be able to take over and will the team to victory at that price, and there’s just not enough of a sample you can trust him to do that.
It’s one thing if you have other pieces in place that can take on that burden, like how Porzingis took over in game 1 of the finals, or Jrue Holiday showed up in game 2. But when you’re still searching for those guys and don’t have the money to do it, you need the stars to be the absolute best of the best to show up big in those moments. Like Tatum did in game 7 against Philly 2023, like Brunson did in game 5 of the finals, like Giannis did in game 6 of the 2021 finals, Curry in game 4 of the 2022 finals. These are guys that put the team on their back and having 2 of those (Tatum plus another) is how you even the field against teams like OKC, San Antonio, New York. You need every dollar spent to count.
The 24 “superteam” thing is such a canard.
Yes- with healthy Porzingis they were an unguardable two way monster.
But! KP barely played in the playoffs. I defy you to name a historical title team that did not have role players of the caliber of Jrue, DWhite, & Al. Maybe one or two over a 50 year span on teams anchored by generational mvp players, but almost always the surrounding squad is just as good if not better. Thats simply what it takes to win titles! Especially so if your team does not have that all timer (Jokic, Giannis, MJ). Were Al & White & Jrue better than Anounoby, Bridges, & Hart this year? Better than Rondo & Ray Allen & Posey in 08? No.
& the pretense that that was some irreplaceable black swan event elides the fact that had we had JB this year we weren’t that far off from the 24 playoff version of the team (ie almost no KP). Jaylen & JT are better than they were then, as is Pritchard. There’s Hugo, who might not be there yet this year but is certainly on a trajectory to be that caliber of role player. There’s the Simons TPE. There’s ring chasers. There’s near certainty that the punitive 2nd apron cba will be re-negotiated the summer after next.
It also elides the fact that it was Tatum & Brown that won us that championship. They combined for 60% usage (coincidentally the one year they had equal usage in the playoffs). That core duo was the foundation of the winningest team of the decade, the only team that went to 4 Conference finals or 2 Finals. Whatever disagreement exists about their offensive fit (I think the incompatibility was totally overblown- other coaches talked about the difficulty of defending those two all the time) I think their fit on the defensive end was utterly insane, under referenced, & a huge factor in the teams success. We had the best two way wing duo in the league, not close, & a level of switchability that was unmatched.
Now we are hanging everything on the hope that someone will gift us a player as good as JB who is also less expensive (this hypothetical player would be among the most valuable assets in the league & ensure a massive bidding war) for a PG expiring pu pu platter next year, a hope that itself relies on the uncertain notion that PG won’t zag & opt out (he might! He is a proven let’s say idiosyncratic decision maker).
This was a bad trade. I hope I’m wrong, maybe I will be- we’ll all certainly find out soon enough. But this is what 40 years of rabid basketball fandom tells me is the case- we will look back on this summer as the beginning of the end of this era’s success & we will not be relevant again in the Tatum era.
JB was sorely unappreciated by the fanbase (never in history has a Celtics title team player, let alone one of the absolutely most central central contributors, been discussed with such utterly casual disregard & diminishment. Gonna be interesting to watch you all find out what you so happily jettisoned & where you lay the blame you used to lay at JB’s feet
My therapist reminds me to accept the things I cannot control and move on.
Banner 19 will come. Let’s give the guys we have our love and trust.
Nah I’m old this might be it for me.
Just you wait man, this team is going to be great this year. You have incredible Celtics basketball yet to watch.
They were the second seed in the east last year.
Sad Development
Yup. Or at least try for one more year with him then trade him, or wait for a better offer. So stupid
Yeah i don’t see why not let it play out at least half a season.
They didn’t save any money
Which wasn’t the point. The point was to get off Jaylen at that number because he’s overpaid.
Waiting gets him closer to a contract year and the return would have gotten even worse for a player no one wanted at his salary. Smart teams won’t pay Jayson Tatum money to Jaylen Brown’s anymore. PHI may not either after this season. Don’t be shocked if they move him if they lose in the playoffs.
lol brown is overpaid, but George is not?
That’s what people who don’t understand these contracts say. George is off the books in a year and JB is looking for $70 million+. Not worth that
You don’t have to give him the extension
Ok so don’t extend brown
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You aren’t getting a better deal than him off a 28ppg season as a first option. His value would just decline
also this was the last year JB could get traded before he could really start dictating his trade location and the Celtics would get even less… also they clearly wanted PG’s expiring salary for next year so they can then use it to make even more moves
He was only coming back happy if we gave him the extension, if you give him the extension his trade value is severely worse because you’ve added years and money to it and he’s also a year older.
That would’ve been a terrible decision. He also was liking stuff on IG about being unhappy, so why risk him demanding a trade outright.
You don’t have to give him the extension. He would still play without it unless he said somewhere he wouldnt, but I didn’t hear anything.
Why do you think he would still play without it? You think that’s a common occurrence for players on max contracts?
This is going to be the best offer we’d ever get on an MVP level season.
I don’t understand people that think Browns value would magically improve, he just came off the best season he’ll ever have with the highest usage rate he’ll ever have, and he’s like the cheapest he’s going to be for a long time.
And how do we improve and pay everyone else. No more trades just run it back with everyone.
bruh Robinson and Conley already signed while Brown was still on the team, they are still under the tax. PG makes the same amount of money as JB. That trade makes no sense. Even the cope of extension blah3 JB was still locked in for 3 years
Ain’t no way you believe he was gonna happily play without an extension for 3 years
You need PGs salary to match for trades with teams like for Jokic. We got one less year without JB.
But the most critical change was the fact that JB was going to want the extension and really the Celtics were done with the JB business. Having just him or just Tatum would have been fine but having both is too hard to build around them.
With curry and possibly jokic available and their salary matching George’s expiring contract do you think any of that is in play. Or they are gonna try and stack the team after George’s leaves with cheaper guys. It seems like that is the plan? It feels like they are trying to replicate the same team building approach as the spurs with Duncan.
I like the move personally. Brown wanted a bigger role and Tatum wanted his old role back. It just wasn’t going to be like old days. I think Brad recognized that and saw the opportunity to get some draft picks and a decent star back. People think George is washed but analytics tell a different story. Boston has the best medical staff at keeping players healthy. Well just have to wait and see. At least it gives this year a new look. I wish Jaylen the best. I’ll root for him. He gave us everything. He’ll always be a Celtic.
It’s been two and a half months, at this point posts like this have to be bait.
Posts like OPs are just sad and yeh troll bait. They just want this place to be a nightmare to post on.
lol yeah ok. Tell me how. Everyone talks all this nonsense. But how is it a good deal?
Nah, they helped their championship equity significantly by trading Jaylen for Paul George. Thankfully our FO looks at tremendous amounts of data and analytics and know what they’re doing - Brad is not getting sentimental any time soon like most fans.
Plus we got a potential top 5 pick in an elite draft on top of that - a thing we would have no chance at getting otherwise.
u/BoSocks91, since you deleted your comment.
Nope, way wrong. He’s been trying to trade Jaylen for 4 years. I don’t think Brad really even wanted Giannis, it was just cover. Giannis is great but he’s hard to build around, which Miami is going to find out first hand because their front court is complete non shooters and they just traded one of their best shooters in Herro. That offense is going to stink. Paul fits great on basically any team, much like Tatum. Giannis + Queta is not a good fit. But if you say you tried to trade for Giannis, it’s much easier cover when you actually wanted someone else the entire time who isn’t as well revered.
The analytics were overwhelmingly not in Jaylen’s favor. We’ve never needed him and he doesn’t fit into how we want to play. We are going to be historically great this year.
Ehhh, I think having Jaylen made sense when the economics were friendlier. JB was never worth his contract it’s just now not being worth the contract has consequences. We definitely needed him in 2024, though, be fair about that. JT shoulda gotten Finals MVP but JB was still a key reason we won vs Indy and DAL.
Our net rating was 10 points better in those playoffs when Jaylen was off the floor. We have never needed him.
This is probably one of the worst takes I’ve read.
It was a bad trade. That’s just the facts.
No. You just don’t understand analytics lol
Brad is fully committing to possession maxxing and shooting a lot of threes, and Jaylen is broadly not a good defender so we massively upgraded on that end as well.
We were so much better off with Derrick or Payton running the show than Jaylen last year because they massively increased three point rate and massively decreased turnovers, and we also offensive rebounded on top of that. And Payton was also just a better “star” shot maker than Jaylen last year. Payton/Derrick/Jayson/no Jaylen the last three years has a +17.5 net rating. Add Queta and it’s +34.1 and it’s like +37.5 with Hauser (the closest comp to PG as an elite spacing wing).
Our offense out of three main guys last season, just them on the court:
PP only: 122
Derrick only: 121
Jaylen only: 115
Jaylen is just not good and Paul George is.
never needed him. The cope is almost beyond laughable atp. wow
We haven’t. Much better net rating with him off the court his entire career.
They did, they helped out their championship. The Sixers…
The 76ers are going to be a 7⁄8 seed. That team is clunky as fuck and going to be straight up not good on defense.
This attitude is so funny because u get to pretend to know it all now and be condescending now yet will 100 percent nver circle back and take accountability if you’re wrong.
Ticket prices went up and team got worse with the “option” to get better than they were in 2025 if everything goes right. It’s OK to admit uncertainty in sports predictions
I literally built a website to put my takes on the record without having to gamble lol. So that’s as incorrect as possible.
Also I’m not going to be wrong. I’ve commented various analytics on here a lot but it’s annoying to write it every time and Reddit only allows you to post one picture at a time for no clear engineering reason.
We might have the greatest team of all time. The FO and coaching staff are aware of this. We are going to take 3 point shooting + possession maxxing + finishing extremely well at the rim to the maximum and I’m really not sure there is a way to guard it and it shows in the previous lineup data, and Brad redid our roster to have lots of great athlete defenders who generate a ton of turnovers, our one big weakness under Joe. I expect us to have a much more aggressive defensive scheme now too.
You type so much to say nothing literally none of that has any bearing on evidence. You clearly have an agenda and when people have an agenda the perception of evidence revolves around that orbit. It’s call confirmation bias, so we’re not taking you seriously.
You type so much to say nothing literally none of that has any but the truth is you clearly have an agenda and when people have an agenda the perception of evidence works around that orbit.
Learn how to use a fucking comma.
Also, I quite literally explained it if you weren’t so fucking dense.
We shoot way more 3s than everyone else + collect 35-40% of our offensive rebounds + finish extremely efficiently at the rim due to the spacing + do not turn the ball over and you’re talking about a 130ish offensive rating (the greatest ever is 123.2 by us in 23⁄24).
And we massively improved our defensive personnel (Jaylen is a bad defender, Paul George is a great defender + so is Mitch + playing our young wing defenders more, who are much better at defense than Jaylen) and we’re clearly changing from a very passive defensive scheme (we were 29th in turnover generation) to a much more aggressive one (turnovers are very good), and we were already 4th in defense last year. We will have possibly the best net rating of all time. A thing we have had the last 3-4 years when Jaylen was off the court. We’ve never needed him.
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Hey brother, I know a lot of GM decisions can be head scratching, but check out this video from Daniel Li that explains some of the Jaylen Brown stuff : https://youtu.be/7QQehiGMNws?si=d2DFEYCdTcadgRBY
This video is awful and totally ignores all the legitimate basketball and cap related reasons Stevens made the trade. Sixth street only has a 20% non-controlling share anyways.
It was a great deal. Wait and see.
Sorry, for who?
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everyday bro
Every damn day
100%. That trade was nuts.
What was nuts about it.
Giannis went 3 FRPs, one swap, one 2nd
JB went for 2 FRPs, 2 2nd’s
So if giannis is so much better than JB, like i watched everybody in this sub say for weeks up until giannis got sent to miami, then why would that be considered a bad return. As far as the player compensation, i wouldn’t even want any of the players the bucks got in that trade. Like it would be ware, but we have cenac now so what would be the point. Outside of that i’d rather have PG for a year with that contract we have the potential to flip next summer than take on any of those players.
Everyone also forgets JB was nuking his own trade value. We were talking with brooklyn, portland, charlotte and others and he made it known he wasn’t interested so that was it.
I think there were at least one or two other teams who might have been interested in Jaylen Brown and who got intel that Jaylen Brown wasn’t interested in them and to maybe stay out of the bidding. I think Boston felt the circle closing,
https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/zach-lowe-jaylen-brown-sabotaged-034246442.html
The only thing more annoying than Jaylen brown are the people still crying about him being gone. Nobody in the league but 20% of Celtics fans think he’s that good. He’s not the guy he thinks he is and he wants to be THE guy. We’re gonna see frustrated JB this year and I’m ready for it
Promise you more than 20% of Celtics fans are pissed about this trade.
Careful. If you say anything positive about JB this thread will get swarmed by JoeBot and Brad Stevens analytics bots boring the shit out of you with perspectives of people who would prefer to make spreadsheets as opposed to perceive true, game impacting basketball athletes.
I don’t.
The Brown trade will be looked at more favorably than the Brooklyn trade in a few years.
The team lost in the first round last year.
The team will compete for a championship this year.
Well too fuckin bad.
Lol nah
Its a money thing i believe
It’s the only rational take, that two hours with Mitch and Conley before the trade was euphoric and since its happened I’ve been filled with rage , it’s still go Celtics but Bill Chisholm sell the team
Yup. Nailed it. The cope by half the people in here is real. Let me be the first to say, like many of you deluded do. I hearby announce that when the Sixers win the championship and the Celtics get stomped out in 2nd round, I gatekeep you into oblivion. There is nothing about this trade that’s good.
I really like optionally
The celts won’t ever contend for a title until the new private equity owners sell the team.
lol PE owns as much of this team as they own of the Spurs. The fact that Chisholm is a PE guy? Wait until you learn what Wyc and Pags did.
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I’m crashing out ngl