Was the Deepest Tower helm really so overpowered that they had to remove it from the game entirely?
Low Life and any Execute skill sounds pretty Op to me
Execute is percentage-based, there’s no interaction with low life
I don’t know why I’m being downvoted, I’m correct
https://preview.redd.it/zoaxjxvd35rh1.png?width=867&format=png&auto=webp&s=391c613496e4bb37b456f0bdb076f3640c245095
Its tied directly to low life.
The support gem text specifies enemies that are low on life
Culling strike support? I don’t see that
I can’t recall a support being staright culling strike but if you just write cull, you’ll see every skill that has to do with culling, & Culling doesn’t work on enemy the same way, the enemy theoretically still has 100% at base, & base culling is by rarity 35/20/10/5% life remaining to cull/kill the enemy, so culling is only going to kill if it meets the requirement of life is met.
Witch-hunter ascendency has a Culling Strike ascendancy node which is pretty cool, also quite few nodes in the tree that make culling happen sooner (culling strike threshold) there is also some gear with it, if you get 190% white will die from any hit, 400% will kill blues, & its not possible to get 900% to kill yellows even less so 1900% for unique enemies, that would be insane tho, kill every thing with one punch, make a character called Saitama.
Still 400% is possible to get, I reached a little over that 430~ still kills yellows a little before they reach half health, & unique at 25% life, play with friend with kill counter active & you’ll steal every unique kill instantly, unless friend one taps them.
It explicitly says “against enemies on low life”?
You’re almost certainly thinking of culling strike
I know bro, they corrected me further down the chain. Somehow it’s at 71 downvotes now, let’s see how many we can get. Added ragebait edit
Somehow? You were confidently incorrect
Why do you think the new Atziri gem is so powerful because of execute and low life
It’s just a misunderstanding; you’re thinking of skills that execute like culling strike, which I did too, but they’re thinking of skills supported by the support gem execute. Idk why they worded it as any execute skill, and not any skill supported by execute. .
Even chance can strike on first hit. No need to lower hp bar to 30% or something before.
I have no idea what you’re saying
https://poe2db.tw/us/Execute_II
what you are talking about is culling
It was really overpowered yes
Unless your build was married to a specific helmet equipping this and adding the “Execute” support would be a MASSIVE increase in your damage in all situations
And then even more if you could allocated the “Low Life” nodes on the bottom part of the tree
Every single Str, Str/Dex or Dex starting class would path there
Problem is with the removal of the helmet the super OP nodes are useless now lol
A normal damage support is about 20% more damage on average and some can be a lot more. We literally have things like Rakiata’s Flow which is way more damage than Exectue II. Making execute II go from 35% uptime to 100% uptime is about 27% more damage. That really isn’t that massive for a helmet and support gem slot. I’m sure there is some other broken interaction somewhere other than just these minor damage increases.
That math is not quite right.
Think of it this way, multiplying our damage by 1.5 is equivalent to dividing the foe’s health by 1.5
So instead of removing the last 33% of a foe’s health, we only have to remove 22%.
66%+22% = 88%
1/.88= 1.12
So Execute in the best case is 12% more damage.
But the reality is even worse, because the more such effects we have, the less efficacy they have. No matter how much we stack, we can only ever approach 33% more damage as an asymptote.
That’s why effects that require foes to be low on life are so generous.
I’m not sure I follow your math on this. The support might be 27% more damage than it would be without the helm due to the low life uptime. But isn’t it always 150% more damage than almost any other support based on your own statement of most supports being 20% more damage? Execute 2 is 50% more damage with the helm making enemies in your presence always count as low life so 100% uptime.
Seems like a pretty good trade off for a helmet slot especially considering the passives that support it.
It made any character regardless of spell/melee OP with like 0 investment. Cast on crit needs a change imo, but it requires lots of investment to get rolling at least.
People are always whining about coc, but you actually need quite a lot to cap crit and have somewhat manageable crit multiplier. Or be cocklocked into 3.5x.
I think the problem is that it’s basically holding back every other spell in the game because it’s aimed you’re running some type of cast on X setup (with comet) so your actual spells you cast are irrelevant anyways.
The game in general just has too few options and terrible skill balance in general tho. It’s not like this is strictly a spell problem. Crit scaling is just so much better than anything else currently that running CoC for every build just makes sense and any non crit build pretty much caps out super hard
My first char was ice shot. Having to aim and run around and make sure I was facing the enemy was annoying due to the effect noise making the cursor difficult to see. The next build I ran was cast on ailment infernalist and that was a lot more fun. The screen got super noisy but not having to care was nice. Now I’m running flameblast gemling and again I don’t care where the cursor is. Between the lag and the effect noise trying to aim or direct damage sucks.
Or to play Oracle with inevitable crits
You need invest into crit chance on oracle too, without it you will lose tons of dmg means less energy for coc, the only thing oracle node does is let you use items and supports working on crits, but coc requires dmg from crits
There is a unique glove that gives you a 250% crit multiplier. It is not hard to pair it up with pinpoint
But then you’re hard capped on 250% multi, where as end game builds can be 1,200%+ crit multi.
That’s why I said “or be cocklocked into 3.5x”, a literal ass damage when coc with an actual budget runs with 6-9x.
The problem is not “cast on”, commet needs a severe reword and a lot of spells need significant changes in their numbers at least
Just so casters would suffer like a warriors with 2 sec manual casting?
Nothing wrong with that if it had movement that was good PLUS a fuck ton of damage.
Not sure why the suggested solution to overpowered builds is always to nerf the build that works rather than buff the ones that aren’t as strong.
Remove every “Cast On Condition” from the game.
If GGG wants the game to have friction, having to press keys on the keyboard or buttons on the controller is a great start.
Enemies in your presence count as being on low life
That affix has the potential to enable so many things. Low life mechanic would need to be balanced around this helmet.
Low life mechanics are ass anyway change my mind.
Is there any decent build that actually utilitizes low life enemy mechanics?
Not now, but check the clusters around mercenary for low life and what they were .2.
Execute II gives you 50% MORE damage against low life enemies. That alone is insane.
Those flame blast grenade gemlings or whatever got like 700%. More.
So the last 35% of the mobs life you get 50% more damage …
Wow this sure sounds like I better make a build around it asap /s
Brother, deepest tower treated their ENTIRE life bar as low life as long as they were you in your presence. Meaning you received those buffs for all enemies no matter their life total.
Agreed. Witch hunter ascendancy is probably the only reason to try and make use of it. Don’t know how good a build based around it would be though.
Uh, why do you think atziris communion is so popular and expensive. Its an easy way to enable low life tech to gain pain attunement and execute support plus a couple other nodes. Huge damage boost
Though this is for low life player
We are talking about low life on enemies not on yourself.
So not whats been talked about here?
I still have it on my blood mage in standard and yes it’s broken as fuck.
i know someone who used it and asked them the answer is 100% yes
They’re adding that effect on a duelist ascendency
I feel like it should cost 6 points and it would still be OP lol
It was broken af. Was the very best way to scale damage that season. It made damage lucky, plus execute is a very powerful support gem. Not to mention all the additive damage you get.
There are many things in the game right now that scale well beyond what that did at the time.
Yes things in conjunction that can, but the only thing that adds as much straightforward damage at this point is rakiata’s. People are boiling this down to just execute, those low life nodes on the tree are strong as hell paired with the helm.
But really that broken to straight up removed? Could have been nerfed.
It’s very good choice for every build that exists.
All they had to was change the wording. “
Enemies in your presence count as being on low life at 75% or lower”
Same as the low life belt, considered low life at 75%, can get higher roll if lucky. Now theres a whole range of low life enemy nodes that no one uses lol
Changing the last line would just make the item useless
It doesnt. It means the majority of the time youll be doing extra damage against enemies. First hit could easily down to the threshold, second hit would be high damage. It was extremely OP due to the tree passives given. This way its a bit more balanced
It would still make it extremely unreliable
For high end build, you’d have way better option, since you want to end up one shotting thing, not two shotting them
And for low end build, depending on what you build around, it would just suck period, any cast on ailment would suck, same for bleed, ignite, poison, freeze and stun
The only way it could work would be with witchhunter passive that cull full hp ennemies, but then you are investing into something else on top
The real reason why this was so good, is because the damage on low life was generic AND reliable
If the nodes weren’t taken on build not using them, is because they were unreliable, the most important hit is the first one
The item has one downside and we had many ways to expand presence, making it a no brainer
so there are really two ways to go about it, either let it be optimal for very few build ( reduce presence radius to a fix amount and make it melee only, change the node to specify a type of damage, etc ), or make it worse so that you only use it when you have an optimal pathing near it, IE, reduce the numbers on it
Cull =/= low life. You dont cull lowlife enemies you cull when they are below a certain %. Low life bonuses and cull are literally ANTI-sinergystic. You build one or the other never both. It would actually be good if it were something like “enemies are counted as low life when above 65% life instead” so you could make a build that synergyzes culling+low life damage THEN it would be great in witchhunter
It could also potentially break the game if you got 100% reduced presence radius possibly? That would limit their scope of adding presence based notables on the tree etc.
100% reduced presence makes so no one is ever in your presence. That horrible. In 0.1 there was a bug that made everything be instead but they hotfixed pretty fast
It was the basis of every high tier spellecaster build so yes.
That’s a unique for RF, don’t touch that
The last line on the item. You would only play Witchhunter (white mobs are 1 shot with 10% to explode) with at least 4 notable passives and their small passives to alone get 525% increased damage that is Lucky
Low Life is not Culling Strike Threshold
For witch hunter you’d always be running Myris Uxor, not Deepest Tower
His small nodes give damage to low life enemies
Getting 2x 35% increased hit damage hardly seems the reason why everyone would play witch hunter instead of gemling with the extra quality and adding the damage to low life nodes
You mean titan? Yea Titan was definitely better though, so OP
Which isn’t very strong. Just like the Execute II support gem. You’re not wasting a helmet slot to go from 35% uptime to 100% uptime on some damage nodes/supports. You can do it, but it is in no way “op” or “broken”.
Hows this compare to the current meta of everyone running constricting command?
Yes, you could stack that with like 300% damage to enemies on low life on the merc tree and the ascendancy. That with Culling strike was wild.
My favorite build ever was running this with rapid shot
It was exceedingly powerful. Especially with the new items now, it would be even more ridiculous.
Down mercenary tree, there’s nodes that gives more than 200% increased damage to low life, lucky hits.. I agree, remove cast on haha and level of skills
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Yes.
Yes and Constricting Command honestly should have gotten the same treatment
If you think constricting command is broken you definetly never played that helmet. That shit was at least 5x better
I’m not saying they’re the same, I’m just saying constricting command also should not exist
Why not? I think constricting command is actually pretty balanced. I am literally in that part of the tree doing an attack build and a rare helmet is straigh up better. The only time I use constricting is for mana problems and for that I need to lose a support gem for defy too
I think it’s been a crutch primarily for mana on attack builds for far too long, it needs to die and GGG needs to actually address the issues instead of just having a (intentional or not) bandaid fix for like a full year
it got replaced by the Constricting Command helmet for melee builds. There was probably too much low life stuff on the tree for this to exist. Very limited amount of “surrounded nodes”. Plus there are support gems for low life as well. Was pretty busted.
Were you around when this was literally beyond broken? I forgot if it’s .2 or .3 but every single build guides that you’ll see back then are like 99% deepest tower, with all possible builds slap onto it - now imagine if it happened now with the likes of twister, coc, ignite oil, crystal petal, and so on - the whole point of poe2 will be so trivial and so easy to wing it.
Nah, it’s not even close to as overpowered as probably like 5 other things they’ve put into the game since then.
Okay but like can we get the design back with a rework because I love this helmets look
I think it has a problem that a few more uniques share (mainly constricting command), the problem being, it is the ONLY way to enable a significant amount of notables on the passive tree, that are very strong because of their restrictive nature.
Imo they need to remove these notables and uniques or rework them to make the notables less restrictive and strong while buffing the uniques other qualities.
Maybe if warriors couldn’t wear it. Then sure it’s balanced.
I miss my rake stomping ground smith build
on totems this helmet would triple your damage back in 0.2
No. It was just too ugly.
They had this then replaced it with Constricting Command. Then the next OP helmet was Vertex, and the atziri chest piece. And then we got mage blood. Lots of power creep that they can either scale back or make stronger enemies to require these types of items.
I still use my Deepest Tower every day, standard has 98% of the content seasonal does currently and some things they don’t like deepest towers
Huh j swear I have that helmet
Low life means any execute can happen anytime
Edit: since I’m being down voted for some reason… Tada… https://poe2db.tw/us/Execute_II
Isn’t execute on % of life instead of low life?
Look at the execute support gem. Its low life, also no clue why I’m down voted for it…
Yeah even the goverment got involved
It creates a situation where you need to keep every lowlife/execute thing in check.
If you ask me is the exact same as the surrounded shit with the legendary viper cap. I don’t understand why one is ok and the other is not.
Witchhunter would cull entire packs instantly. Kinda limits future design options as well
Culling is on % of life, not low life
Deepest tower was quite common unique. You can do the same thing with atziri communion, aka, the chase lineage support
Not really. Atziris communion makes you low life. Tower makes enemies low life
He’s referring to what they both enable, which is execute support gem. Atziris is better since you can double dip with execute 3, but still it’s a “more” multiplier to your damage.
Sure there’s one support gem in common, but there’s also a fair bit of difference beyond that (mainly pain attunement from player low life and lucky damage from enemy low life). And it’s probably good to actually mention the support gem if you want to call them the same.
I’m playing a culling strike build right now, and you can cull normal mobs at full life, but you still have to at least use a few button presses against rares and bosses.
With the current equipment you could cull every enemy in the game from full life. There’s no way it can exist.
Culling Strike and Low Life are separate mechanics
Having that helmet on would not allow you to insta cull anything
No, not realy.
Great generic damage increases, it was the go to for too many builds.
Its Power Peak was not even that high, weaker than a +4 vertex.
I can see it coming back once we have competetive endgame options for all archetypes.
